I always put an explanation of how a map I make works in the mapping section. I realize that most people who don't make maps, don't read that section. I didn't read it until I started mapping. If people were to read the explanations of the maps before they played them, then they give themselves a better chance to enjoy the map. If people still don't enjoy a map after making the attempt to actually understand why the map was made the way it was, that is perfectly fine. My map explanations are detailed because my maps tend to be complex. Everything you will need to know how to play the map and my reasons behind it will be in those threads.
I also understand that a lot of you don't like me. That, too, is fine because I'm not going to change my style of play, and that's the root of all the branching reasons some people choose to dislike me. If you guys haven't noticed, I don't go around starting fights. They start when I'm insulted and I defend myself.
One thing that is very childish and petty, however, is people claiming one of my maps to be trash simply because they don't like me. I make these maps to give the VCTF community different looks at the VCTF gametype in my attempt to progress a dead game. I would say that for the sake of the VCTF community that you all claim to hold so dear, any map made needs to be given a chance instead of labeling it bad before trying to understand it and playing it. If you don't like the map maker, go tell people the map maker is a dick all you want, but you don't need to downplay their map to people before giving it its fair chance.
The main point is if you have played a map, whether it is my map or not, and you understand the map for what it is and just can't seem to enjoy it, there is no problem with that. You can speak up all you want during a map vote, I do. That's what the vote is for. I, however, give a map a chance before I will determine its failure. Don't lobby against a map before you give it a fair shot.
Anyway, here are the links to my map threads. I request people read at least the first post. The first post will explain the map, and after reading the first post, you'll understand the map and perhaps enjoy it.
Doomsday:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1263
Doomsday didn't need a lot of explanation. The map is straightforward but emphasizes quality movement. The redeemer did get a lengthy explanation because it needed one.
Hit&Run:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1299
Hit&Run emphasizes teamwork kind of like what is needed to break a defense and make a successful Manta run, except you do it with Hellbenders. I've noticed people have stopped riding the Hellbenders in this map. Maybe they think it's too hard to cap the flag that way, but I've noticed successful Hellbender runs have been executed every time I've played the map on a team that continually attempted Hellbender runs.
Interstice:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1442
Note how Voidnull posted the map was fun after he had played it. The very next time I played the map with him-- that night or the next day, can't remember-- he immediately began to trash the map as soon as it was voted. This happened after I headshot him in a narrow tunnel (headshots are easy in narrow tunnels) the previous map. Since Void was angry with me, he tried to ruin my map for everyone he could. Strange he would do that after posting the map was enjoyable. This is what I'm talking about. If you have a problem with me or someone else, fine, just don't punish the work they do because of it.
I made some changes to this map after receiving some negative feedback. The walkways no longer propel you to your death when you walk on them. Instead they safely shoot you back the way you came. Also, the walk path on the sides of the bases now has a wall that prevents you from being shot off so easily. This path is the only way to walk from base to base, but the drawback is it takes longer to run a flag using that path than it does to use the jump pads.
My Maps
Moderator: Admins
Re: My Maps
You've done well Id. I wish I had the mental capacity to learn the editor as fast as you have. No matter how good a map is. there will always be some that like it, and some that don't. Your daring take on mapping, and breaking the mold has certainly made a mark in the community. I feel that sticking to the mold of proven VCTF mapping techniques will satisfy most of the crowd as in commercial music. While your style attracts more of a cult. Again... that is my opinion. Anyways, if you're having fun, power to you my friend. I advise taking everything with a grain of salt. Hear people out, but do what you love.
Re: My Maps
Oh common dude. Dont take it personally. Im inclined to think a lot of your maps arent very good overall. And you know I have nothing against you. Its just that you try to do too much in a lot of your maps. Also, you might want to try to listen to some of the criticism that people are giving, rather than disregarding it as people "not understanding"... People do understand and dont like it. Its as simple as that.
What most people want are maps that give dynamics to every position and more action in more areas without such a high learning curve. You tend to "think" that many areas of your maps bring new aspects/dynamics to the game, but they fall a bit short. Here's a couple of examples why:
Doomsday: Great map, but... people tend to hang out in the off areas sniping the flag area (not contributing much more than that), making it very hard to defend. Not fun for defenders, especially the paladin (which is key for defending). The paladin usually gets no support to take out the attackers and no people to link. Is that fun? Hell no. So what usually ends up happening is nobody plays d and the game becomes too offense orientated.
Interstice: very rarely do I see anyone outside and people usually end up hanging around on D because nobody cares for your creation in the middle. Its not that we dont understand it, we dont like it. As a result, offense becomes ridiculous with so many defenders and no realistic way to support the offense with so many sniping positions inside the base.
In the end, your maps are not very balanced and you feel the criticism is against you. Take a look at JimR's maps. His are extremely well balanced. Almost every position you play is fun and challenging and dont require a high learning curve. Remember, many of us only play like 2-3 hours/week.
Again, dont take it personally. Just because your maps suck, dont mean you do. You rock! And I dont think your maps suck, they just need adjusting. If you need any help, let me know. I have great ideas on how to fix.
What most people want are maps that give dynamics to every position and more action in more areas without such a high learning curve. You tend to "think" that many areas of your maps bring new aspects/dynamics to the game, but they fall a bit short. Here's a couple of examples why:
Doomsday: Great map, but... people tend to hang out in the off areas sniping the flag area (not contributing much more than that), making it very hard to defend. Not fun for defenders, especially the paladin (which is key for defending). The paladin usually gets no support to take out the attackers and no people to link. Is that fun? Hell no. So what usually ends up happening is nobody plays d and the game becomes too offense orientated.
Interstice: very rarely do I see anyone outside and people usually end up hanging around on D because nobody cares for your creation in the middle. Its not that we dont understand it, we dont like it. As a result, offense becomes ridiculous with so many defenders and no realistic way to support the offense with so many sniping positions inside the base.
In the end, your maps are not very balanced and you feel the criticism is against you. Take a look at JimR's maps. His are extremely well balanced. Almost every position you play is fun and challenging and dont require a high learning curve. Remember, many of us only play like 2-3 hours/week.
Again, dont take it personally. Just because your maps suck, dont mean you do. You rock! And I dont think your maps suck, they just need adjusting. If you need any help, let me know. I have great ideas on how to fix.
Re: My Maps
I know it's nothing personal with you McShagger, so no worries. I do have some contradictory points, though.
I have made significant changes to all of my maps after hearing people's suggestions while helping me beta test.
About the Paladin being linked. It's not by map design that the Paladin doesn't get linked, it's the mindset of the players. I link the Paladin when I get the chance. I have seen plenty of times on that map two or three people link-training the Paladin. I also didn't want the Paladin to be too powerful. I hate when the Paladin can back itself into a corner and hold its shield up and stay alive all game long. There is no stronger defensive crutch. What I did to prevent this was allow foot players many angles of attack. The Paladin is never safe, and that's how it should be. A defense should be able to be broken. The Paladin spawns in nearly fifteen seconds. It's not too much to ask that people play some defense on foot until the Paladin spawns again.
McShagger, I would love to hear your suggestions. As I mentioned, I've made changes to Interstice based on your suggestions. I'd like for you to help me beta test all my maps, but as you've said, don't take it personal if I don't use all the suggestions.
And don't worry about Guilty Pleasure. I knew that map was horrible before I even started making it, but I made it as a joke anyway.
I do listen to the criticism when it is useful criticism. The criticism on Interstice is the jump pads, but if I remove to jump pads or make the bridges walkable, it defeats the whole purpose of the map; therefore, I am not going to make that change. I made Interstice not even convinced I would like the map myself, and if I didn't like my own map, how would anyone else. I made it anyway because I've wanted to play a map where a fatal drop can only be spanned by a system of jump pads. All I did was make a map I've always wanted to play. Turns out I enjoy the map a lot. I did listen to some of the criticisms. Your criticism of being shot off the side path too easily has prompted me to place a wall on the walkway so that you can't be shot off. People criticized being catapulted to their death when walking on the middle bridges, so in my latest beta, the middle bridge now just shoots players safely back the way they came. I finally decided to add a Raptor after Badasp suggested it, which I had previously considered doing but decided not to. I added foot exit and Raptor entrance holes in the front base walls after that was suggested.McShagger wrote:Also, you might want to try to listen to some of the criticism that people are giving, rather than disregarding it as people "not understanding"
I have made significant changes to all of my maps after hearing people's suggestions while helping me beta test.
Doomsday is an offensive minded map by design. It was supposed to be a quick cap map. Fast action and intense gameplay. Doomsday definitely delivers in that aspect.McShagger wrote:Doomsday: Great map, but... people tend to hang out in the off areas sniping the flag area (not contributing much more than that), making it very hard to defend. Not fun for defenders, especially the paladin (which is key for defending). The paladin usually gets no support to take out the attackers and no people to link. Is that fun? Hell no. So what usually ends up happening is nobody plays d and the game becomes too offense orientated.
About the Paladin being linked. It's not by map design that the Paladin doesn't get linked, it's the mindset of the players. I link the Paladin when I get the chance. I have seen plenty of times on that map two or three people link-training the Paladin. I also didn't want the Paladin to be too powerful. I hate when the Paladin can back itself into a corner and hold its shield up and stay alive all game long. There is no stronger defensive crutch. What I did to prevent this was allow foot players many angles of attack. The Paladin is never safe, and that's how it should be. A defense should be able to be broken. The Paladin spawns in nearly fifteen seconds. It's not too much to ask that people play some defense on foot until the Paladin spawns again.
All of my maps have multiple ways for people to cap on foot. I have no trouble capping on foot on any of my maps. I don't cap it every time, but my success rate is not bad. The hardest map to cap on foot isn't even Interstice, it's Hit&Run, but Hit&Run still has plenty of foot caps when it gets played, although Hellbender runs are more fun. As I make a map, I envision the foot run paths. I'd be glad to show anyone the most efficient foot running paths to my maps. I much prefer high cap games than I do 1-0 stalemates. What people don't understand about Interstice is that once you get on the jump pads in the middle and put your shield up to block Shock shots, rarely will you get knocked off the jump path and fall to your death. Anyone who is confident enough to stay back and shoot at a jumper will then be unable to catch up to that player if they should miss, thus giving the flag carrier and easy path home. People don't understand that using the jump pads makes the cap easier than if I just had the bridges there to walk across and no jump pads. I think more people would enjoy the jump pads if they just knew how to use their Shield Gun. The Shield Gun is one of the most underrated weapons in the game. It's incredibly useful. I have yet to be shot off the jump pads while carrying a flag.McShagger wrote:Interstice: very rarely do I see anyone outside and people usually end up hanging around on D because nobody cares for your creation in the middle. Its not that we dont understand it, we dont like it. As a result, offense becomes ridiculous with so many defenders and no realistic way to support the offense with so many sniping positions inside the base.
McShagger, I would love to hear your suggestions. As I mentioned, I've made changes to Interstice based on your suggestions. I'd like for you to help me beta test all my maps, but as you've said, don't take it personal if I don't use all the suggestions.
And don't worry about Guilty Pleasure. I knew that map was horrible before I even started making it, but I made it as a joke anyway.
Re: My Maps
Id, you are missing the point completely. You are still defending your maps like you are defending yourself. Your maps arent good. And I told you why and you try to explain why its not. Im going to come right back and tell you what I see and experience. You cant fight the facts.
Re: My Maps
Telling me my maps aren't good isn't fact. It's called making an opinion.
If you don't like the maps, don't vote for them. Some people give me suggestions that would require me to change the whole purpose/style of the map. If I'm going to just change the purpose/style of my maps after I make them, I may as well not have a goal in place when I begin a map. In that case, maybe I can make the next FacingAss or IntenseZone.
When I get a suggestion that will enhance the gameplay of one of my maps as opposed to changing the gameplay, I will definitely use that suggestion, and I have already done so in all of my maps.
My purpose for this thread was not to tell some people that my maps are great and they're wrong for not liking them. My purpose was to say they should give any new map a chance to be played regardless of whether they don't get it in the first ten seconds or they don't like the map maker.
Like I said, I didn't come in here and tell people they should like my map. That's what you're doing, except you're telling me and everyone else they shouldn't like the maps. Trying to say what you've said and then claiming it to be fact is a good way to have your argument ignored.
If you don't like the maps, don't vote for them. Some people give me suggestions that would require me to change the whole purpose/style of the map. If I'm going to just change the purpose/style of my maps after I make them, I may as well not have a goal in place when I begin a map. In that case, maybe I can make the next FacingAss or IntenseZone.
When I get a suggestion that will enhance the gameplay of one of my maps as opposed to changing the gameplay, I will definitely use that suggestion, and I have already done so in all of my maps.
My purpose for this thread was not to tell some people that my maps are great and they're wrong for not liking them. My purpose was to say they should give any new map a chance to be played regardless of whether they don't get it in the first ten seconds or they don't like the map maker.
Like I said, I didn't come in here and tell people they should like my map. That's what you're doing, except you're telling me and everyone else they shouldn't like the maps. Trying to say what you've said and then claiming it to be fact is a good way to have your argument ignored.
Re: My Maps
Actually, I didn't want to start an argument with this thread. I wanted to make a statement. McShagger, please just PM me if you want to continue this conversation.
Re: My Maps
I have an opinion:
-Id- for President!!!
-Id- for President!!!
Re: My Maps
Dude, you still dont understand or listen, do you? There are parts of your maps that are just so unenjoyable that they make the map suck. Thats it. Opinion is a form of fact.
Re: My Maps
While this chick may give some guys a stiffee... she does nothing for me
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Re: My Maps
Uh? No.McShagger wrote:Opinion is a form of fact.
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CTC-PapaSmurf
- Holy sh*t!
- Posts: 975
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:58 am
- Location: CO
Re: My Maps
Just take constructive criticism and ignore the non-constructive demeaning/rude comments. Everyone will have an opinion. The fact is that you are putting your work on public display and there will be those that have an opinion. Not everyone liked Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, Rembrandt.. etc. when they put their work out there.. What I will say is that each of those artists took major amounts of criticism and I believe they were better for it.
Each map you create will be better and better. I imagine that this wont be solely through your skill, but your ability to listen to others and take what you wish away from them. Criticism is just a fact of human nature. Take it or leave it, how you use it is up to you.
I appreciate you making maps for the community and the majority of people on our server feel the same way. We have played your maps many times now and have had quite a few great games.
Keep working at it. You will certainly not become a Salchicha, JimRimya or Mr. Bean in the short amount of time you have been creating maps. Jim and Sal have been mapping for years and have made some of the best maps we play today. The major difference is when we were invited to play a new map that these guys created, they actually listened to us when we felt something was lame or if a change might be better. If they didn't feel the same way, the criticism was ignored. Mr. Bean has made some really awesome maps and does the same thing. He has also modified many maps to fit the desires of the majority of people that play with him.
Good luck in your new found hobby. Just know that the majority of people on the internet are much nicer in person than they are behind the anonymity that they so much enjoy behind a router.
Say hi to your Mom for me,
PapaSmurf
Each map you create will be better and better. I imagine that this wont be solely through your skill, but your ability to listen to others and take what you wish away from them. Criticism is just a fact of human nature. Take it or leave it, how you use it is up to you.
I appreciate you making maps for the community and the majority of people on our server feel the same way. We have played your maps many times now and have had quite a few great games.
Keep working at it. You will certainly not become a Salchicha, JimRimya or Mr. Bean in the short amount of time you have been creating maps. Jim and Sal have been mapping for years and have made some of the best maps we play today. The major difference is when we were invited to play a new map that these guys created, they actually listened to us when we felt something was lame or if a change might be better. If they didn't feel the same way, the criticism was ignored. Mr. Bean has made some really awesome maps and does the same thing. He has also modified many maps to fit the desires of the majority of people that play with him.
Good luck in your new found hobby. Just know that the majority of people on the internet are much nicer in person than they are behind the anonymity that they so much enjoy behind a router.
Say hi to your Mom for me,
PapaSmurf
You just got knocked the smurf out!
Re: My Maps
Receiving negative critiques doesn't bother me. Like you said, I ignore the bad suggestions.
The only thing that bothers me, and what prompted this thread, was people not giving a map a chance. If my maps get enough play time and still aren't enjoyed, then it is fine if they never get played any more. I appreciate all the people who help me test and give me suggestions.
The only thing that bothers me, and what prompted this thread, was people not giving a map a chance. If my maps get enough play time and still aren't enjoyed, then it is fine if they never get played any more. I appreciate all the people who help me test and give me suggestions.
Re: My Maps
A couple of comments:
-Id-: Back in the day people told me that I was too much of a muscle head and too short to compete as an elite martial artist. I did not grow taller and I did not shrink in order to do what I wanted to do. What worked for me was to workout and spar with people who were better than me. People that were already at the level I wanted to be at...so I recommend you hooking up with Jim and Sal and anyone else that could help you. Step out of your comfort zone when it comes to suggestions. You are going to hear critiques that you may not agree with but may give you an edge you in the end. It would be great if you could get these guys to test your maps while you took notes on observations.
You get a big thanks from me and many for just putting in a very solid effort at creating a playground for us to play on.
Mr. Bean: That woman in you picture is beautiful in her own way. I travel a lot and it never ceases to amaze me how culturally diverse this world is. For instance, this woman below does absolutely nothing for me, but yet she is worshipped among many...go figure:
-Id-: Back in the day people told me that I was too much of a muscle head and too short to compete as an elite martial artist. I did not grow taller and I did not shrink in order to do what I wanted to do. What worked for me was to workout and spar with people who were better than me. People that were already at the level I wanted to be at...so I recommend you hooking up with Jim and Sal and anyone else that could help you. Step out of your comfort zone when it comes to suggestions. You are going to hear critiques that you may not agree with but may give you an edge you in the end. It would be great if you could get these guys to test your maps while you took notes on observations.
You get a big thanks from me and many for just putting in a very solid effort at creating a playground for us to play on.
Mr. Bean: That woman in you picture is beautiful in her own way. I travel a lot and it never ceases to amaze me how culturally diverse this world is. For instance, this woman below does absolutely nothing for me, but yet she is worshipped among many...go figure:
